What do you believe?

This place is for lovers of truth.

What do you believe? Forum Index -> Paganism chatterbox -> Question Time :)
Post new topic  Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic 
Question Time :)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:35 pm  Reply with quote
horsethorn
Moderator
 
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 29




It's a bit quiet here, so I thought I'd start a thread Smile

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about paganism, and I'm happy to answer any questions (if I can Wink )

I'm a panentheist, and I use the Celtic (Welsh) gods as my way of interacting with the immanence/divinity of the universe.

ht

_________________
...then you will understand the truth - that there is no signature
View user's profile Send private message
Re: Question Time :)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:32 pm Reply with quote
admin
Site Admin
 
Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 238




horsethorn wrote:
It's a bit quiet here, so I thought I'd start a thread Smile

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about paganism, and I'm happy to answer any questions (if I can Wink )

I'm a panentheist, and I use the Celtic (Welsh) gods as my way of interacting with the immanence/divinity of the universe.

ht


Why? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of reality in your life.
If they do not exist then it cannot change anything.
Is it a form of denial?

_________________

LOVE the LORD thy God with all thine heart, mind, body, soul and strength.LOVE your neighbour as you LOVE yourself.. in this way you love me.
View user's profile Send private message
Re: Question Time :)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:57 pm Reply with quote
horsethorn
Moderator
 
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 29




admin wrote:

horsethorn wrote:

It's a bit quiet here, so I thought I'd start a thread Smile

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about paganism, and I'm happy to answer any questions (if I can Wink )

I'm a panentheist, and I use the Celtic (Welsh) gods as my way of interacting with the immanence/divinity of the universe.

ht


Why? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of reality in your life.


No, because the divine immanence is still 'real'.

Here's an analogy:

You are using a computer to interact with this messageboard. In 'reality' the data on the messageboard is just a long string of zeroes and ones - 1010010101010101011001101001 etc - which you would have extreme difficulty in comprehending. Consequently, you use a range of tools to make it easier to see what is written, ending with your browser.

The Welsh deities are my 'browser' - they help me interact with the immanence.

admin wrote:

If they do not exist then it cannot change anything.


In the same way as a browser does, they help me 'translate' my interaction with the immanence into something I can comprehend. It does not change that the immanence is there.

admin wrote:

Is it a form of denial?


Denial? Of what?

ht

_________________
...then you will understand the truth - that there is no signature
View user's profile Send private message
Re: Question Time :)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:20 pm Reply with quote
admin
Site Admin
 
Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 238




horsethorn wrote:
admin wrote:

horsethorn wrote:

It's a bit quiet here, so I thought I'd start a thread Smile

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about paganism, and I'm happy to answer any questions (if I can Wink )

I'm a panentheist, and I use the Celtic (Welsh) gods as my way of interacting with the immanence/divinity of the universe.

ht


Why? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of reality in your life.


No, because the divine immanence is still 'real'.

Here's an analogy:

You are using a computer to interact with this messageboard. In 'reality' the data on the messageboard is just a long string of zeroes and ones - 1010010101010101011001101001 etc - which you would have extreme difficulty in comprehending. Consequently, you use a range of tools to make it easier to see what is written, ending with your browser.

The Welsh deities are my 'browser' - they help me interact with the immanence.


The computer analogy is understandable at all processes are followed.
However when applying it to your personal beliefs as a synonym it does not work. Because the computer has a purpose for everyone who uses it.
It does not apply to individuals alone and it is something everyone can understand the process and need for. But your faith is not one of those processes which is explained by the computer analogy and applies only to an individuals choice.


Quote:
admin wrote:

If they do not exist then it cannot change anything.


In the same way as a browser does, they help me 'translate' my interaction with the immanence into something I can comprehend. It does not change that the immanence is there.


The computer analogy as explained cannot be applied to your beliefs.

Quote:

admin wrote:

Is it a form of denial?


Denial? Of what?

ht


A denial that you know what you believe in is false. It has no basis or real purpose to your life.

_________________

LOVE the LORD thy God with all thine heart, mind, body, soul and strength.LOVE your neighbour as you LOVE yourself.. in this way you love me.
View user's profile Send private message
Re: Question Time :)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:17 am Reply with quote
horsethorn
Moderator
 
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 29




admin wrote:
horsethorn wrote:
admin wrote:

horsethorn wrote:

It's a bit quiet here, so I thought I'd start a thread Smile

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about paganism, and I'm happy to answer any questions (if I can Wink )

I'm a panentheist, and I use the Celtic (Welsh) gods as my way of interacting with the immanence/divinity of the universe.

ht


Why? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of reality in your life.


No, because the divine immanence is still 'real'.

Here's an analogy:

You are using a computer to interact with this messageboard. In 'reality' the data on the messageboard is just a long string of zeroes and ones - 1010010101010101011001101001 etc - which you would have extreme difficulty in comprehending. Consequently, you use a range of tools to make it easier to see what is written, ending with your browser.

The Welsh deities are my 'browser' - they help me interact with the immanence.


The computer analogy is understandable at all processes are followed.
However when applying it to your personal beliefs as a synonym it does not work. Because the computer has a purpose for everyone who uses it.


It does have a purpose - to help me interact with the immanence.

[quote="admin:5575"]
Quote:
[quote="admin:5550"]
It does not apply to individuals alone and it is something everyone can understand the process and need for. But your faith is not one of those processes which is explained by the computer analogy and applies only to an individuals choice.


Each individual uses a computer differently, hust as each individual has a different relationship with the immanence, whatever name they give it. Because of personal experience, no two people approach their religion/beliefs in the same way.

It's a good analogy for my POV, that's why I used it. You may disagree with it, others may disagree that there is anything there to interact with Smile

admin wrote:
Quote:
admin wrote:

If they do not exist then it cannot change anything.


In the same way as a browser does, they help me 'translate' my interaction with the immanence into something I can comprehend. It does not change that the immanence is there.


The computer analogy as explained cannot be applied to your beliefs.


Well, yes it can, because I did, and from my POV it is a good analogy.

[quote="admin:5575"]
Quote:
[quote="admin:5550"]

Quote:

admin wrote:

Is it a form of denial?


Denial? Of what?

ht


A denial that you know what you believe in is false. It has no basis or real purpose to your life.


Where have I denied that I use an artificial construct to interact with the immanence?

The immanence is real, but is something that we cannot comprehend beyond the simplicity of existence; in christian terms, 'god is unknowable'. To be able to 'know god', we need a structure which helps us interact - for christians, that's the bible, for hindus it's the vedas, for me it's the Welsh myths.

ht

_________________
...then you will understand the truth - that there is no signature
View user's profile Send private message
Re: Question Time :)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:36 am Reply with quote
admin
Site Admin
 
Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 238




horsethorn wrote:
admin wrote:
horsethorn wrote:
admin wrote:

horsethorn wrote:

It's a bit quiet here, so I thought I'd start a thread Smile

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about paganism, and I'm happy to answer any questions (if I can Wink )

I'm a panentheist, and I use the Celtic (Welsh) gods as my way of interacting with the immanence/divinity of the universe.

ht


Why? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of reality in your life.


No, because the divine immanence is still 'real'.


Which is like giving rise to the atheists belief that you create something to believe in to help you feel better about your life.
How can something not real give credence to your life and surroundings even within you. Sorry but that is as I have said. You knowingly create something or choose in your case, something to believe in.
No security there if not real.

Quote:

Here's an analogy:

You are using a computer to interact with this messageboard. In 'reality' the data on the messageboard is just a long string of zeroes and ones - 1010010101010101011001101001 etc - which you would have extreme difficulty in comprehending. Consequently, you use a range of tools to make it easier to see what is written, ending with your browser.

The Welsh deities are my 'browser' - they help me interact with the immanence.


The computer analogy is understandable at all processes are followed.
However when applying it to your personal beliefs as a synonym it does not work. Because the computer has a purpose for everyone who uses it.


It does have a purpose - to help me interact with the immanence.


Immanence is not something you interact with. the state of being within or not going beyond a given domain. It is simply choosing what to believe in your case and not going beyond it. Putting your head in the sand. It really does nothing in times of peril.
Quote:

[quote="admin:5575"]
Quote:
[quote="admin:5550"]
It does not apply to individuals alone and it is something everyone can understand the process and need for. But your faith is not one of those processes which is explained by the computer analogy and applies only to an individuals choice.


Each individual uses a computer differently, hust as each individual has a different relationship with the immanence, whatever name they give it. Because of personal experience, no two people approach their religion/beliefs in the same way.

It's a good analogy for my POV, that's why I used it. You may disagree with it, others may disagree that there is anything there to interact with Smile



As it is a state of being within you and not going beyond a given domain then it really cannot be applied to the analogy of a computer.
Nor can it be applied or made equal to users of a computer.
Basically it is like the ostrich who when they see danger stick their head in the sand thinking if they cannot see the adversary that the adversary cannot see them. Your belief is like the Ostrich it has not foundation in truth. Because though the ostrich cannot see the reality of it's own thinking being wrong... you can. You know that there is no reality in your chosen belief. So no matter how you put it, you are chosing to believe and sticking within that belief knowing that it holds nothing for you.
Would the Ostrich stick it's head in the sand if it understood and could comprehend the truth. Fact is unlike the Ostrich you do know that your beliefs hold not security or reality. Which makes you worse off than the Ostrich for sticking your head in the theoretical sand.



Quote:

[quote="admin:5575"]
Quote:
admin wrote:

If they do not exist then it cannot change anything.


In the same way as a browser does, they help me 'translate' my interaction with the immanence into something I can comprehend. It does not change that the immanence is there.


The computer analogy as explained cannot be applied to your beliefs.


Well, yes it can, because I did, and from my POV it is a good analogy.

[quote="admin:5575"]
Quote:
admin wrote:


Quote:

admin wrote:

Is it a form of denial?


Denial? Of what?

ht


A denial that you know what you believe in is false. It has no basis or real purpose to your life.


Where have I denied that I use an artificial construct to interact with the immanence?

The immanence is real, but is something that we cannot comprehend beyond the simplicity of existence; in christian terms, 'god is unknowable'. To be able to 'know god', we need a structure which helps us interact - for christians, that's the bible, for hindus it's the vedas, for me it's the Welsh myths.

ht


It is pointless isn't it when you realise unlike the Ostrich that you are in self-denial. I am sure that from now on those false beliefs will be stripped away from you one by one because TRUTH is strong and you know by what you have written that there is no reality in your beliefs.

I find that sad because even the Ostrich can actually take some comfort by believing he is now safe by his actions.But you will never feel that from your beliefs. From now on you cannot deny the truth that you accept a code of beliefs you know to be false. It is best to live in truth than pretend.

_________________

LOVE the LORD thy God with all thine heart, mind, body, soul and strength.LOVE your neighbour as you LOVE yourself.. in this way you love me.
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:51 am Reply with quote
cymnot
miracle in the making
 
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 6512




I would say whatever floats your boat.
Recently I have taken an interest in Buddhism.
View user's profile Send private message
Re: Question Time :)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:09 pm Reply with quote
horsethorn
Moderator
 
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 29




admin wrote:
horsethorn wrote:
admin wrote:
horsethorn wrote:
admin wrote:

horsethorn wrote:

It's a bit quiet here, so I thought I'd start a thread Smile

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about paganism, and I'm happy to answer any questions (if I can Wink )

I'm a panentheist, and I use the Celtic (Welsh) gods as my way of interacting with the immanence/divinity of the universe.

ht


Why? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of reality in your life.


No, because the divine immanence is still 'real'.


Which is like giving rise to the atheists belief that you create something to believe in to help you feel better about your life.
How can something not real give credence to your life and surroundings even within you. Sorry but that is as I have said. You knowingly create something or choose in your case, something to believe in.
No security there if not real.

Quote:

Here's an analogy:

You are using a computer to interact with this messageboard. In 'reality' the data on the messageboard is just a long string of zeroes and ones - 1010010101010101011001101001 etc - which you would have extreme difficulty in comprehending. Consequently, you use a range of tools to make it easier to see what is written, ending with your browser.

The Welsh deities are my 'browser' - they help me interact with the immanence.


The computer analogy is understandable at all processes are followed.
However when applying it to your personal beliefs as a synonym it does not work. Because the computer has a purpose for everyone who uses it.


It does have a purpose - to help me interact with the immanence.


Immanence is not something you interact with. the state of being within or not going beyond a given domain. It is simply choosing what to believe in your case and not going beyond it. Putting your head in the sand. It really does nothing in times of peril.


Immanence, as used in theology:
adjective

   existing or operating within; inherent:the protection of liberties is immanent in constitutional arrangements
   (of God) permanently pervading and sustaining the universe. Often contrasted with transcendent.

It's a term I prefer to use rather than 'god', because 'god' comes with so much baggage that it can be more trouble than it is worth - as soon as you use the word, the person you are speaking to applies their own definition - which can vary from the nice-old-bloke-on-a-cloud, through the antitheist's idea of the christian god as amoral dictator, to the ignostic's 'it's a meaningless term'. Using a different word helps to level the playing field so that discussion can be had.

the god/s of most faiths are immanent in some fashion, whether it is the omnipresence of christianity or the inherence of a pantheon deity in their element (Thor in thunder for example).

Quote:
Quote:

[quote="admin:5575"]
Quote:
[quote="admin:5550"]
It does not apply to individuals alone and it is something everyone can understand the process and need for. But your faith is not one of those processes which is explained by the computer analogy and applies only to an individuals choice.


Each individual uses a computer differently, just as each individual has a different relationship with the immanence, whatever name they give it. Because of personal experience, no two people approach their religion/beliefs in the same way.

It's a good analogy for my POV, that's why I used it. You may disagree with it, others may disagree that there is anything there to interact with Smile


As it is a state of being within you and not going beyond a given domain then it really cannot be applied to the analogy of a computer.
Nor can it be applied or made equal to users of a computer.
Basically it is like the ostrich who when they see danger stick their head in the sand thinking if they cannot see the adversary that the adversary cannot see them. Your belief is like the Ostrich it has not foundation in truth. Because though the ostrich cannot see the reality of it's own thinking being wrong... you can. You know that there is no reality in your chosen belief. So no matter how you put it, you are chosing to believe and sticking within that belief knowing that it holds nothing for you.
Would the Ostrich stick it's head in the sand if it understood and could comprehend the truth. Fact is unlike the Ostrich you do know that your beliefs hold not security or reality. Which makes you worse off than the Ostrich for sticking your head in the theoretical sand.


The immanence isn't the computer - the equivalence is immanence = messageboard data. The computer is/are the holy book/s or myths, and the browser is the person's interpretation of the deity/deities. For example, a christian sees their god as being described in the bible, and interprets the information in it.

Quote:
Quote:

[quote="admin:5575"]
Quote:
admin wrote:

If they do not exist then it cannot change anything.


In the same way as a browser does, they help me 'translate' my interaction with the immanence into something I can comprehend. It does not change that the immanence is there.


The computer analogy as explained cannot be applied to your beliefs.


Well, yes it can, because I did, and from my POV it is a good analogy.


admin wrote:
Quote:
admin wrote:


Quote:

admin wrote:

Is it a form of denial?


Denial? Of what?

ht


A denial that you know what you believe in is false. It has no basis or real purpose to your life.


Where have I denied that I use an artificial construct to interact with the immanence?

The immanence is real, but is something that we cannot comprehend beyond the simplicity of existence; in christian terms, 'god is unknowable'. To be able to 'know god', we need a structure which helps us interact - for christians, that's the bible, for hindus it's the vedas, for me it's the Welsh myths.

ht


It is pointless isn't it when you realise unlike the Ostrich that you are in self-denial. I am sure that from now on those false beliefs will be stripped away from you one by one because TRUTH is strong and you know by what you have written that there is no reality in your beliefs.

I find that sad because even the Ostrich can actually take some comfort by believing he is now safe by his actions.But you will never feel that from your beliefs. From now on you cannot deny the truth that you accept a code of beliefs you know to be false. It is best to live in truth than pretend.


I'm certainly not in self-denial; I tried that for a while, but realised that my experiences were pointers to something beyond the material. I've studied widely and have come to the conclusion that the immanence is experienced differently by different people, most often using their cultural imagery, but sometimes being more personal. Looking at the range of interpretations of mystic experience, there is a thread running through most of them, which sadly is often suppressed by the prevailing organised religions.

Whether or not the framework I use to interact with the immanence is 'real' doesn't matter - it is personal to me and I don't expect anyone else to accept it. The 'code of beliefs' is part of what I have tried to comprehend from my experiences. It's rather like having alternative descriptions of a rainbow. We all know that it an electromagnetic effect brought about by refraction of light through raindrops and extends beyond the visible spectrum. The wavelength range can be mathematically demonstrated, but what we see is red-orange-yellow etc. From my physics/optics background I could give the scientific description, but saying 'rainbow' is a shortcut to that science.

It's the same with the structure in the Welsh myths; they match what I have experienced, but are a shorthand which makes it easier to discuss.

ht

_________________
...then you will understand the truth - that there is no signature
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:10 pm Reply with quote
horsethorn
Moderator
 
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 29




Bump

_________________
...then you will understand the truth - that there is no signature
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:23 am Reply with quote
horsethorn
Moderator
 
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 29




horsethorn wrote:
Bump



_________________
...then you will understand the truth - that there is no signature
View user's profile Send private message
Question Time :)
What do you believe? Forum Index -> Paganism chatterbox
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
All times are GMT  
Page 1 of 1  

  
  
 Post new topic  Reply to topic  

Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Powered by phpBB © 2001-2003 phpBB Group
Theme created by Vjacheslav Trushkin
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum